There is some talk that the "close combat vehicle" will be the CV90. I would love to see a mix of LAV's and CV90 supported by Leo2's. As i understand it, Sweden is downsizing their armour so now should be a good time to pick up some slightly used vehicles.


DND seeks more than $2B for vehicles for Afghanistan
Insiders question strategy given tough economic times

David Pugliese
The Ottawa Citizen


Monday, November 17, 2008


The Department of National Defence plans to ask the government to approve a multibillion-dollar package to purchase new armoured vehicles and rebuild others that have been worn down by continued use in Afghanistan.

Defence Department equipment and policy bureaucrats, along with army officers, are working on the proposal they hope will be presented sometime next month.

They will ask Defence Minister Peter MacKay to approve three vehicle projects at once and the value of the combined equipment package is estimated to be more than $2 billion.

But privately, some defence industry and military representatives are questioning the strategy of asking the government for blanket approval of such a large amount of money at a time of increasing concern over the economy.

They worry that the price of the vehicle programs will make it easy for some members of cabinet to raise objections and withhold approval for all three.

The Defence Department plan proposes the purchase of what is being called a "close combat vehicle," which would accompany the army's Leopard 2 tanks into action. The proposal also calls for the purchase of a new armoured tactical patrol vehicle and an upgrade of the existing LAV-3 armoured vehicle fleet, which has been worn down in Afghanistan.

Mr. MacKay's press secretary, Jay Paxton, said the minister is open to looking at all equipment proposals from the department.

"The government has been clear in that they will provide our troops with the equipment and protection needed to do the jobs asked of them," Mr. Paxton said. "Having said that, no proposal has come forward to Minister MacKay's office on this particular vehicle acquisition."

Defence officials hope by tying the three projects together they can better explain the need for the vehicles and how they fit into the overall military structure.

The push for new vehicles for the army comes at a time when the air force and navy are also proposing large-scale equipment purchases.

The navy wants a new joint support ship, Arctic patrol vessels and eventually a replacement for its destroyers and frigates. At the same time, about $3 billion will be spent modernizing the existing Halifax-class frigates.

The air force want to acquire 16 Chinook helicopters, new maritime patrol aircraft, search-and-rescue planes and an eventual replacement for the F-18 fighter aircraft.

Alan Williams, the Defence Department's former assistant deputy minister for materiel, said combining programs for blanket approval from cabinet is a risky proposition. He said the Harper government needs to be informed about where the vehicle programs fit into the overall defence policy, what the procurement strategy will be and why these three programs, above others, should proceed.

"You're talking about a couple of hours' worth of discussion for each project," said Mr. Williams, author of the book Reinventing Canadian Defence Procurement. "If you bundle three together, it could be a non-starter.

"It's a lot for ministers to get their head around at one time," he added.

Some cabinet ministers might also object to giving the department blanket approval and may want more control over the process, he said.

The purchase of new vehicles for the army is outlined, but without specifics, in the Conservative government's Canada First defence strategy, released earlier this year.

An army report leaked to the Citizen in the spring outlined the degree to which the Afghanistan war has taken a toll on the LAV-3s, as well as the army's other vehicle fleets.

"All of our equipment is either deployed, being reset, used in training or broken and waiting either labour or spare parts," wrote army commander Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie in the January report.

There is concern among some in the Canadian Forces about whether there will be enough money in future budgets to finance all of the equipment purchases, but Mr. MacKay has continued to point out that the Canada First strategy lays out enough funding for any new acquisitions.

© The Ottawa Citizen 2008
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...d7-852b1175c27e

A related blog

CANADIAN FORCES LOOKS AT CV90 FOR NEW CLOSE COMBAT VEHICLE



The Defence Department and the Canadian Army are looking at the CV90 as a possible candidate for a new close combat vehicle (aka infantry fighting vehicle).

The close combat vehicle program, which has yet to receive approval, would see the acquisition of new vehicles to accompany Leopard 2 tanks into the field.

Defence sources say the current LAV-3 does not have the mobility needed for the job in off-road conditions. The likely preferred option is to go for a tracked vehicle. The equipment program is one of three new projects that will be presented to Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

The CV90 had been previously looked at by the Army when it was first in development but there were concerns about its cost. But now the vehicle has proven itself and is in service with a number of armies, making it more attractive to the Canadian Forces, according to several sources.

The CV90 family has been developed to meet the requirements in six different countries; Sweden, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Holland and Denmark, according to officials with BAE, the firm that builds the vehicles. The latest version is called 9035 MkIII and is sold to Holland and Denmark.

There are a number of variants in the CV90 family. CV9030 was originally developed to meet the requirements of the Norwegian army and is outfitted with the Bushmaster II cannon in the 30 mm two man turret. It also carries an add on armour kit.

The CV9030 MkII is a further development of the CV9030 design to meet the Swiss and Finnish armies requirements. It is equipped with the digitized Vehicle Information System (VIS) and also a fully stabilized 30/40 mm Bushmaster II/Mk44 cannon, according to BAE

CV9040 is in service with the Swedish Army; it carries an eight men section and is fitted with a Bofors 40 mm cannon. The CV9040 is primarily deployed with the Main Battle Tank in the Swedish Mechanized Brigades.

The CV90 has been used overseas in Liberia and in Afghanistan. Norwegian troops in Mazar-e-Sharif used the vehicles in a counterattack against insurgents in late 2007. It was also used this May against Taliban in Badghis Province. The Norwegian news media reported as many as 65 insurgents were killed in that battle.

According to globalsecurity.org the 40 mm Bofors auto cannon assures lethality to all other light armored vehicles and even offers a chance to kill enemy tanks from flanking positions with its APFSDS-T ammo.

http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitize...at-vehicle.aspx

Leo2 and CV90 seem to be a great combination. Wonder if Canada would go for used CV9040s or get their own customized version. The 40mm is a strong cannon but has its flaws. CV9035 CDN sounds rather good to me.

OT, but are Canadian Forces splitting back into separate services?

We have the Canadian Forces or CF. It has a Navy, Airforce, and Army that trains its core specialties and procure and mainting its specific fleets and produce doctrine on their deployment. The Deployment of those forces are done by either CEFCOM (Canadian Expeditionary Force Command) for overseas deployments and is a joint HQ, and CANCOM(Canada Command) for domestic deployments and security, which is again a joint Command. We also have a command for Speical Ops

Logistics are provided by ADM(MAT) which provided for all three services and Special Forces.

Communications is provided by either the Airforce (CELE) or Army (COMMS), but generally work at the Joint level

Sailors ware sailer uniforms, Airforce has its own uniforms, and so does the Army. Even our Combat uniforms have distintive nametags and T shirts to show the tri service roots. The old days of one dress uniform have been gone for about 15 years


Sparky will be so upset to see us no go with Super -Gavins. Ummm Leo's, CV90 and LAVs... very flexible and fast force...oh yeah and very un-Canadian like in its very DEADLY too

Bet'ca a doughnut that it winds up being LAV III/Strykers...

Would it ease the pain if you painted the CVs pink?

Who's being a silly bunt, then? We're rather happy being the meanest motherfuckers in the valley...

Damn, where do I have to go to request a Canadian Invasion of Belgium.
You get new toys and the will to use them, and we will end up without any tracked combat vehicles.

It's already LAV III.

WE already have the LAV family, and while a great veh that has exceeded our expectations, we do lack a tracked veh to follow the LEO 2. This would add additional punch to our forces. A Heavy tracked force with Wheeled Fast Vehicles to exploit... sounds good to me

Good because you are going to get more of them.

Why not buy Grippen to repalce F-18s and get free used CV9040 with the deal.

Methinks what we'd really like would be a few squadrons of A-10s to complement our ground forces... "down & dirty" kinda has a ring to it, y'know...

That is true... we are looking at additonal LAV 3/4 to replace our worn out stocks.
We are asking for a new Patrol Veh to replace G Wagon et al
We are asking for a tracked IFV for heavy ops.

We may just end up coming out of Afghan with a nicely balanced moderen Army... never thought I would say that about the CF

What size purchase are we looking at? A battalion's worth?


Falken

Why do I have this nasty feeling that our Canadian Overlords are really Swedes? Next thing we know, Canada will have stealth patrol boats, fly Gripens, outfit their Leo2s into Strv122s, change their flag....

Leo2 and CV90 combination is in use at many other countries than just Sweden: Finland, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland...in fact in every country that has CV90's has also Leo2's. Another thing is that is the CV90 so good together with Leo2 or does Leo2 just to be a general Euro-tank at the moment...

Oh, piss off Tomas! The only Swedish thing we currently have a dearth of is their blondes; I'm sure that can be remedied over time, with proper direction.

Well, it is to Canada's benefit that the Swedes come up with such neat toys, but can't afford to keep them for themselves.

What, the tanks or the blondes?