I'm interested in the general opinions and effectiveness of the S-60 57mm towed anti-aircraft gun. In the days when we mostly hear about the ZU-23 23mm and Tunguska's 30mm with accompanying missiles, does the older 57mm round have any edge over the newer designs when compared with AA guns alone?

Are there any identifiable benefits or limitations of this system compared to say, the ZU23?

Apart from a Concord book covering the ZSU-23-4 Shilka, I haven't yet heard of any (in english) covering Soviet AAA as a whole. If anyone has any reccomendations, I'm surely interested!

Thanks.

+Higher ceiling, longer range
+heavier shell

-Heavier
-larger
-lower RoF
-by now obsolete ammo

However the ammo is just a matter of perceived worth - would it be for example hard to (given a customer and a budget) modify Bofors 57mm programmable shells to be fired from S-60?
S-60 mounted on SP platform might be a great anti-helicopter SPAA, something like lighter OTOMATIC or what was that Italian 76mm beastie called.

other question

Might it, with modern ammo and FC, be better at C-RAM duty than 20mm/35mm guns?

Quite possibly, given that the Germans have been experimenting with 155mm artillery in the C-RAM role, firing prox-fuzed shells.

The S60 suffered not only from a lack of prox fuzes but also from an outdated FCS. Hardly any of them seem to have been updated, although as I recorded a couple of years ago in the "updates to Rapid Fire" page on my website: "Poland is upgrading the old 57mm S-60 AA gun for a naval battalion. It will feature a low-level surveillance radar linked to an automated command and control post. Deliveries are expected in 2007/8." Anyone know if this has actually happened?

No idea about that.

But I know there were some plans to modernize FDF ZSU-57-2 vehicles with new FCS and ammunition etc. There were some studies about the issues involved and based on those, plans and vehicle was delegated to history.

OTOH modernisation of ZSU-57-2 would have to be more complex than that of just towed system.

Another idea, what with the AU-220 system? Any plans for new 57mm ammo based on that? it would not be that difficult to base a new AA weapon on AU-220 then, no?

The Italians have a new project for this one:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/cha...jsp?channel=dti
september issue, page19f, "MWS" turret

On a general note, the 57mm was what Vietnam era pilots were mostly talking about when they discussed the AAA threat. It was also a part of the AAA threat that kep NATO planes at such high altitudes over Bosnia. Can't spoof or dodge a dumb shell, even one that has to hit you directly to do damage.

There were relatively few 57mm in Bosnia on either side (48 in VRS in 1993. + some 30 in need of repair). There was however lot of 40mm Bofors models (US M1, UK Mk.1 and No.12 with few L70).

The North Koreans still use the S-60 extensively and even make a twin version.

It is a well known fact that most of US planes were downed by AAA in Vietnam, was it S-60 that played significant part? I always thought that these were ZU-23 and ZPU-2/4, capable of shooting down aircraft at lower atitudes.

What about Middle East? Did Egypt use S-60 in 1973?

Iraq certainly used S60s in 1991. A year or so later unofficial commemorative cartridge cases for the gun, engraved with "Operation Granby" (the UK contribution) started to appear on the collectors' market.

I read in Bravo Two Zero that one of the SAS dudes had a 57mm S-60 shell shot right through his backpack (While carrying it). I bet the guy urged for a doubble whiskey to calm down after that..

Plan was deleted as organization where those belong was taken off the lists...Those ZSU-57-2's are at the moment available in nearest nail shop near you...(as are T-72's, BMP-1's and BTR-60PB's too).
FDF's the towed S-60's were deleted from lists I belive as early as 1980's...why I don't know.

OT the FDF nickname for ZSU-57-2 was "half platoon jacuzzi" by the looks and the huge crew.

There was a study done... around the time of the SGT York M247 project (the twin 40mm on an M48 Chassis) that calculated the chances of a ZSU-57-2 downing a jet at around 0.2%, basically because it had no real fire control equipment.

Now, all you need is a bunch of guns and enough sorties flying overhead, and you will probably down some aircraft.

I think that if you want to roughly calculate its effectiveness, were it to be updated with the latest radar, fire control, fuzed shells, etc, then perhaps you should calculate the increase in volume of a 57mm over a 40mm (I *think* that it is roughly twice as much payload, I could be way off...) and its rate of fire compared to a 40mm system, and that math should give you a very, very rough estimate. 57mm is no joke. Even a nearby explosion that doesn't "kill" the aircraft will create battle damage that will take time and spare parts to repair, and that can really add up over time.

The other big value of 57mm is that any ground target short of a tank would be toast, and it would do a number of most field fortifications (not WWII Japanese bunkers, mind you).

All very interesting stuff.

I've certainly heard about the capability of the ZSU-57-2 against buildings (Bosnia perhaps?) where the 57mm shell could penetrate the wall and explode on the inside. Certainly a weapon to have when dealing with fighters holed up in buildings firing from high locations.

Were some later-production ZSU-57-2's not given some kind of basic rangefinder?

Lastly, has the S-60 ever been mounted on any vehicle (apart from the S-68 on the T-54 chassis). I would not be surprised to hear of an S-60 on an MT-LB for example, but it could be somewhat too heavy for a conventional truck?

Dunno about MT-LB but some heavy truck would be able to take it I would guess.

If we talk about rangefinders, it is worth mentioning that Poland has developed its own S-60 modernization, with electrical engines for guns and Blenda FCS (http://www.radwar.com.pl/eng/blendao.htm). Deployed in small numbers [2-4 batteries] by Polish Navy as a point protection measure (I know it is not what to expect on modern battlefield, unfortunately )

Not to mention de infamous M-1939 37mm gun which is the one I have seem mentioned in most sources (and the 12,7mm DShK as the main AA gun in the South and rather lethal against helicopters)

Looks like a hevily modernized Flap Wheel FCS, which seems to be a quite reasonable update road.

On Kosovo, with APHE rounds - standard HE is always set on superquick.

In theory those could be made static and IIRC linked to PUAZO series of RFs/FCS but then they are no batter then towed S-60.


Yes, some of conflicts on Caucasus in early '90s featured S-60 mounted on the truck (Ural IIRC).

57mm shells actually weigh about three times as much as 40mm. The explosive content of 57mm Bofors shells runs up to 450g, compared with 120g for their 40mm shells. The Russian 57mm round is less efficient, containing no more than 168g HE, but has a thicker and heavier shell body - so, more penetration and bigger fragments. The AP types contain 10-20g HE. New Russian 57mm ammo is supposed to be in development for the new applications as a light AFV and (much speeded-up) naval AA gun.

The pic below (from the Ammo Photo Gallery on my website) shows postwar 40-57mm AA gun rounds (plus a case from the 57mm aircraft Bofors).



40x364R (Bofors L/70), 45x386SR (Russian Navy), 57x230R (Bofors m/47 aircraft gun), 57x350SR (Russian S60 and naval guns), 57x398 (Czech PLK), 57x438R (Bofors AA / naval)