So far I have the basics on the actual guns, thanks to good old Navweps, but anything more detailed on the mountings is proving a lot more illusive. I believe they they might have had some relations to an experimental high angle 6" CA mounting Vickers worked up at one stage, but so far I've not even found their designations let alone any real data or history. My google fu is notoriously weak...

No. 1 Gun Hougham Battery



shane

Do you mean 8/13.5", 'Bruce' emplaced at St Margaret's-at-Cliffe, Dover and manned by the RM Siege Regt? Bruce being named after Vice Adm Sir Bruce Fraser.

If so you should probably read the sorry tale in 'Trials and Tribulations - Some British Long Range Guns of the Mid-19th to Mid-20th Century', Major Tony Hill, RA Journal Spring 2006, No 1 Vol CXXXIII. I believe the State Library of Victoria may be a subscriber.

However, it states that construction of the gun pit for SE 171 started in early Autumn 1941 but its installation and its operational mounting 'BL 13.5" Barbette Mk11 No 27' wasn't completed until Spring 1943. (Proof with SE170 had been a proof carriage at the Yantlet Bty on the Isle of Grain)

This gun (including SE 170 and SE 172 barrels) was a bit of a disaster, actually the problem seems to have been mainly the ammo, and never seems to have fired operationally. Although 96,659 yards seems impressive if the ammo don't work it's useless.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was purely a ballistics research gun, not an operational piece. It fired northward over the North Sea rather than east against the Germans.

No guys, not Bruce, these were the standard 8" Mk.VIII ordnance from a County class cruiser in a high angle CA mounting. i see Sub-brit didn't like my link, so for a picture:

http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/h...om/index1.shtml


(at bottom of page)

Hougham had three guns,and I'm not sure if there was another battery or if the guns at Hougham had a spare barrel each, because Navweaps suggest 6 barrels were in CA service. I note the underground CP complex included both a battery and Fortress Plotting Room, so it was meant to coordinate the fire of more then one site - and another battery of the same guns makes some sense, so I'm hunting for another battery at present.

shane

Hogg in Allied Artillery of World War Two mentions (not in great detail) three 8in guns that were emplaced south-west of Dover in 1940 in barbette mountings, 'modified from the standard naval mountings' and set in concrete pits. Fired a 256lb AP shell at 2,725ft/sec out to 29,200 yards, and were supplied with a 256lb air burst shell for anti-aircraft (well, anti V-1) firing. The guns could be elevated to 70 degrees.

There is a photo in the book of the rivetted gun house of one of the mountings.

The specifications section of the book states, in addition to the above, that the weight in action was 54 tons, had a barrel length of 413 inches and 160 degrees of traverse.

Doug I thank yee very kindly.

Particularly for the weight, a key point I was looking for, but I have my doubts as to have much 'naval' was in that mounting below the trunnions.

cheers

shane

PS Hogg didn't list a designation for the mount did he?

One question, did they actually have any guns mounted IN the cliff? I vaguely recall a conversation with my Grandfather who says he was walking under the cliff and you could look out and see guns poking out. Any truth in that?

Not that I've seen Geoff, plenty of cliff top low angle gun positions (6", 9.2"s had a rotating gun house) were roofed over and topped with the usual turf etc, so from below it might look like a gun poking out of a cliff.

To the best of my understanding the only cliff face embrasures at Dover were either mg/op ports from the tunnels under Dover Castle, or the CA searchlight positions. Gib was where they had lots of guns sticking out of the rock.

shane

Nah, he never got as far as Gibraltar. Machine guns may well have been what he was talking about, thanks for that.

Could have been twin 6pdrs? They are small enough for such mountings without too much excavation, and being direct fire weapons would have been more effective close to the waterline than at the top of a cliff.

Water level was where they were generally mounted Doug, look out the window at Middle Head (IIRC).

shane

That was from the Isle of Grain battery shooting into the Shoeburyness area, the Dover installation fired west along the coast reaching somewhere off Beachy Head. As I said they never fired operationally, barrel wear was terrible, and there were unsolved problems with the fuzes.