Oh what’s this? This cannot be! According to the 'experts" here in the US after the Iraq war there would never again be a conflict where tanks played a integral role other than as menacing roadblocks on street corners during UN peacekeeper mission. This cannot be, Western Europe and many here in the US declared main battle tanks to be obsolete and conventional wars to be extinct thus paving the way for the glorious light armored wheeled vehicles with their wonderful paper-thin armor for "expedition" operations.


Here is a very good link to a list of the weapons Georgia and the S. Ossetian rebels have in thier respective inventories.

Re IDs. This can be really tough. Basically, Georgians have some T-72AVs and T-72Bs that they have modernized. These are easy to ID based on the lack of IR searchlight. All T-72B's that Russia has committed so far have it. So any T-72AV and any T-72B with no searchlight is Georgian. Allllriight.... but what about *un*modernized T-72B's that Georgia has too? So far they haven't been committed, but given the attrition Georgian armor is suffering, and their unwillingness to stop this madness those may reach theater too. Then the fratricide situation will become a total nightmare. A functional tank can be distinguished by the mudguards - Georgians place tactical markings there, we don't. But this is the thing that burns away real fast, so won't work for destroyed equipment.

So far I have seen photos that allow to identify 5 different casualties. A pair of tanks that is most commonly shown, another tank that has been blown to smithereens right next to these two with the turret flying off and crashing through the building, and another pair of tanks with one decapitated and another knocked out without too much external damage.

Two knocked out Georgian tanks.



This is just standard hatch assembly, Georgian T-72's have it too. However, this is a T-72AV and Russia doesn't have them there.

Pretty crazy to be in the middle of that. Friend or Foe can depend on which way the barrel is pointed.

I hope someone is sending a bunch of Manpads & ATGM's to the Georgians.

But I don't expect G. Bush to do that since he's seen into Czar Putins soul & saw a nice (KGB) guy.

Oh great, another webwarrior

I hope SIPRI is a better source than Wikipedia, I would have to say that it is, they have a fairly detailed list of what Georgia has imported, and also exported. Imports include before mentioned T-72s, T-55s, DANAs and SA-8.

http://first.sipri.org/atp_search.html

Right back at you.

Well, you may find it hard to catch me regretting Russia isn't arming Iraqi insurgency with "a bunch of Manpads & ATGM's". So I am afraid you have not much ground to say "Right back at you.". Incidentally US *is* arming and training and advising the Georgians, so in fact US does bear part of the blame for this flare. I suppose this should leave you feeling completely satisfied?

Pure unadulterated sophistry. You sell me a car, I run over somebody, you're to blame?

Tell you what. I don't care who started what or the entire history thereof. I really don't. That said, this week's events are a win win for Russia. No matter what, Georgia will likely now never be part of NATO. And two, Russia will now annex additional territory as a protectorate. How much territory remains to be seen.

I'm neutral on this one.

I don't agree with Bush on NATO , I'm all for ditching NATO. The strings attached to the various troops of certain NATO members troops in A-stan is enough of NATO for me.

As to this little war . Enough ethnic centuries old stuff to go on forever the Russians and the Georgians haven't ever trusted each other from what I read.

I think the Georgians underestimated the Russian reaction but are the Russians after the pipeline and using the ethnic strife as an excuse to get to it ?

Vas, getting this thread back onto the tanks and leaving the politics out of it, are these T-80s in the picture that someone above posted?



Thanks for your help,

Battler

These are T-72Bs.

There has been at least one clip posted on youtube showing a T-55 of some description, for sure this can't be one in Russian service?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbi1okP8ERo T-55 @ around 9:22 into the clip.

I'm quite surprised that I haven't seen any T-62M yet. Any figures to say just how much armour the Russian's are actually committing?

I don't suppose anyone has been able to capture and save the video clip from post #1? Its unusual to actually hear the tanks as there is always talking going on, or in the case of youtube, some cheesy music being played over the top of it.

Well, why do you mention cars in that context? If you sell me a gun (*and* teach me how to use it), and don't verify I am a person of good character, and I shoot somebody - of course you will be held accountable. In fact you may end up being the only one accountable if I were also mad as a March Hare (which sure is the impression I am getting of Mr.Saakashvili's appearance on the CNN)



I hope you are correct, because such a virulently russophobic country joining NATO would certainly have extremely dire consequences for Russia's defensive capability. But in fact it's entirely in Georgian hands, all it needs is cut the disputed regions loose and it will be perfectly qualifiable for membership. Heck, even this is unnecessary, JWB blatantly disregarded the NATO charter by actively campaigning that a country with unresolved conflicts be invited, so even if Russia does annex some part of Georgia I am sure NATO can find a way to bend its own rules a little. Won't even be the first time

I think this is pretty far fetched.

The photos are somewhat "disappointing".

The march columns have suboptimal spacing at times, vehicles have marginal camouflage (no nets, for example), the soldiers don't display much discipline (riding on top of vehicles, non-standardized clothes) and many photos simply show the best imaginable target groups for air strikes.
I understand that the Russians assume their air supremacy, but the terrain is extremely canalizing - just one main road. The road and the vehicles on it are extremely vulnerable to artillery.
The overall behaviour shouldn't even look like that far away from a combat zone - not 60, 40 or 10 km away.
They look as if they were in some policing action in Chechnya and not up against a national army that has ATGMs and artillery.

Some information I have compiled from different sources:

- A Su-25 and Tu-22 (Tu-22M reconaissance?) have been shot down. Georgian authorities have identified the Su-25 (captured) pilot, Coronel Igor Zinov.

- Apparently the Russian Black Sea fleet is preparing to blockade Georgia. In Ossetia there are paratroopers from 3 airbone divisions: 76th Pskov, 98th Ivanovo and 106th (Tula). The unit from the 106th should be 45º Independent Reconaissance Regiment. The 76th is going to be fully sent to Ossetia in 100 flights. With so many paratroopers maybe it is possible to see BMD-4, BMD-3M and GAZ Tigr in action.

- Russia has taken control of the Ossetian capital and Georgia has losted ~50 soldiers, with 470-480 wounded. Georgian artillery was firing on the capital.

Geronimo



This is really interesting, they even mount BMS. Did Ukraine modernize those tanks? Do you know more about them? it is surprising that Georgia is fielding more advanced tanks than Russia.

Photos of destroyed tanks:











It seems that one of the tank lost its turret after ammo exploded, as in one photo is still in its place.

My understanding is that it's been a bomber...

This report of Reuters shows those 2 T-72 tanks but also some dead soldiers.

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=...l=1&sp=true

More photos:







Isn't it a bit strange to use this class of aircrafy when Su-25/24 are more than enough?