Hi,

At the end of May I was privileged to be invited by MANTAK (the Merkava Project management team), to visit Israel to photograph and write about the new Merkava based heavy APC the Namer. (Hence my new Avatar, the short, grumpy blobby thing in front of the Namer, is me)!

I was allowed to climb over and inside the Namera, (the concept vehicle) and two of the three protoypes of the Namer. The name by the way translates to Leopard in literary Hebrew , not Tiger as it would in colloquial Hebrew. All of the design team's graphics are of cats of the spotted, not striped,variety. I was able to attend the Namer's mobility trials and its first firing trial. I also visited the production line and can confirm the machine is in full scale production and has its own unique chassis, based upon but not the same as the Merkava 4.

For field security reasons I am not allowed to put photographs on the internet or provide them to individuals. Please don't ask lads, I would have to say no. However, some photos have been cleared for publication and will appear in Jane's International Defence Review in the near future. Otheres will be apprearing later in the year for Tankograd publications and a temporararily nameless other professional journal. I hope people enjoy them.

I can say that the Namer is truely a formidable machine with ballistic protection which makes other heavy APCs such as the Achzarit look flimsy in comparison.

cheers
Marsh

P.S I was also able to meet Dadi again which was nearly as much fun as the Namer!

I so need to visit Israel.

You're such a tease.

Hi,
Sorry. I should be able to add some data about the machine later this week.


cheers
Marsh

Is that really you or did you photoshop yourself to look smaller? :blinker: I never thought the Namer was that big....

Hi,
I am short, (I would make a good Russian Tanker) but the Namer is bloody big.

Cheers
Marsh

Like an ancient warrior emerging from a cloud of white dust. Determined brave eyes looking up front. A huge sword, covered with the blood of his enemies, in one hand, and the graceful hand of a ever thankful beauty in the other... Marsh walked up the stairs towards me.

Bloody hell Dadi, you will have to stop eating those magic mushrooms!
cheers
Marsh

You lucky bastard!

Can you give us just a wee little bit of information like say, is their plans to place a auto cannon on some of them.

Hi,
The Namer is intended to be the foundation for a whole family of vehicles. A version carrying a turret with a 20-30mm cannon and Spike is on the cards. Rafael's Typhoon autocannon is an obvious candidate but not the only one.
As ever, the fly in the ointment is funding. An other variant which has got the go ahead is an Ambulance version of the Namer.

Cheers
Marsh

So much better to crush innocent Palestinian villages with....ha!

Simon

Isn't that a contradiction in terms, for that sentence ???

Small nitpick, but Typhoon is the name for a navalized remote-controlled weapon station. I suppose Rafael's Mini-Samson (which was shown on a Namer) or the larger Samson RCWS might be used.

My guess would be Mini-Samson for standard APC and Samson for the AC-armed vehicle that was being hinted?

Hi,
Currently the Namer is fitted with Rafael’s Katlanit ("lethal woman") remote weapon station equipped with day and night sights, a 7.62mm MAG for the vehicle commander and an externally mounted 60mm mortar. The Katlanit can be reconfigured and its weapon fit changed from either a 7.62mm MAG or M2 12.7 machine gun to a Mark 19 40 mm grenade launcher. the Katlanit is the IDF version of what is now being marketed as the mini-Samson. It was made clear that the mini Samson and Samson were not the only OWS being considered.

cheers
Marsh

Pretty much confusion with those Leopards and Tigers... at last we know it is HE, not SHE

What would be Tiger in literary Hebrew?

Marsh,
few more questions - how much does this beast weights; and what about engine choosed for final configuration, would it be GD883 1500HP or TMC AVDS-1790-clone 1200HP? Hope you can answer that, if not today, then for some time later.

Hi,

Re the correct word for Tiger, I don't know. Most Israelis would use the word Namer. Certainly with my poor, basic knowledge of pigeon* Hebrew, I would. You need a native Hebrew speaker to sort it out.

Re the weight rather more than 50,000 kg
Re the power pack. Sorry absolutely no comment!
cheers
Marsh

* I was going to edit this as it made me look daft, however, it is somewhat more amusing than pidgin! Thanks for pointing it out Simon!

The Israelis won't mind if Uncle Sam is willing to cough up a few hundred CROWS so they can save some shekels for more of these beasts.

Marsh...it would help if you tried pigdin Hebrew instead. No wonder DADI was so confused.....

Simon

What would be interesting to know is whether the narrow rear hatch is considered a problem after troop trials and whether - if desired - a full-size AIFV-style hatch could be added.

Hi Simon,
Believe me, Dadi's English is fine. He pronounces things clearer than I do as I have a distinct northern accent.
You could argue my native language is "pigeon* English"!
cheers
Marsh

* In case anyone doesn't realise I am from a part of England where people are supposed to race whippets, wear a flat cap and keep racing pigeons.

Hi,
The hatch of the Namer is larger than that of the Namera concept vehicle. Its perfectly possible for a single soldier at a time, wearing full "Battle Rattle", to debark from the machine very quickly.Tthe size of the hatch is seen as a compromise between accessability and maximum protection. The Namer hull although based on that of the Merkava 4 was built from scratch. The option of including a larger hatch was considered, but rejected.

cheers
Marsh

Well, thank you for the clarification.

Forgive me for deviating a little...

The IDF obviously know a thing or two about urban fighting and has been turning out heavily-armoured APC/IFV for decades (using Centurion hulls among others).

How come this concept hasn't caught on much with other nations? Or has it? Is this concept relevant anymore since IED and RPG can toast even the M1?

I know of one other heavy APC (prototypes only?) and that's the Jordanian Temsah also using Centurion hulls. Except the Jordanian one is more clever in that they reverse the hull so that what was the rear engine compartment is now the front. This allows them to have a rear exit door. By comparison, the IDF version has a roof exit, IIRC.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/temsah.htm

A Tiger (The big Indian cat with the stripes) would be called in Hebrew "Tigris" because it is a specific specimen with a distinctive name not appearing in the bible. The same would go for a Penguin, for example. A Namer is a Leopard in Hebrew. Few still survive in the holy land. Namer is also the combination of the beginning of two other words : NAgma"sh (APC) and MERkava.

The first Merkeva prototype was based on a reverse Centurion hull. With relatively short term APC's that were supposed to provide protection, but no ground assault capabilities, the back door was too much of a fuss.

An RPG possibly "toasts" a M1, but not a Merkava of the last 15 years. The Namer provides fast and protected mobility for troops, over very rough terrain. It's heavy. It is not the ideal vehicle for urban fighting. But you'd feel safer in a Namer than in any other APC I can think of. Its main role is to win wars, not serve policing activity.

BTW - the rear door was made to fit a stretcher.

Are these pictures of the Namer version that Marsh is talking about? Or is this new version something completely new?

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/veh...mera/Namera.htm

Hi,
The slab sided vehicle is the Namera concept vehicle. The one with the V shaped flank is one of the Namer prototypes although there have been some changes even in the short time since those photos were taken.

cheers
Marsh

Both the Namer or M1 could be destroyed by such weapons but the thing is that both can withstand much heavier attacks than a vehicle with light or medium armor protection such as the M113 or M2 Bradley.

The Future Infantry Fighting Vehicle for the AMS program was supposed to be a "heavy" IFV on the Block III tank chassis. Yet now the Army is developing another IFV with a medium level of armor protection under the FCS program.

Hi,
I have to be careful what I say here, but the Namer has an unprecedented level of protection against IEDs and even top attack, late-model RPGs. No vehicle is invunerable, but for various, sensitive reasons, the crew of the Namer would likely survive an event which would cause a sure K-Kill on any other AFV.

Cheers
Marsh

Well, there's that one woman, in this one village....she's innocent. so it's all on her...Oh and her apartment buildings...here, and here and here.......All 4 sides of them....and that other building over there that was freshly knocked down....that has the grass growing on it...(it's really fast growing grass ya know...).

Hi,
I have been given permission to make public two features of then Namer that believe are not in the public domaine.

Firstly, the driver does not have his own hatch, he enters or leaves the vehicle via the rear or the roof hatches. The Israelis did not want to compromise protection directly above his station. He has a full range of vision through episcopes and a flat panel which shows daylight/thermal images transmitted from a number of cameras buried in armoured housings.
Secondly the periscopes fitted to the rear of the Namer's hull for the use of infantry passengers have been replaced with two flat screens receiving images from the armoured cameras.

cheers
Marsh

I guess my situational awareness pipe dream is slowly coming true.

Any more info possible on the camera systems that feed the screens?

It was almost possible to see for certain on the first photos that it had no drivers hatch. Thank you for confirming that.

As the Namer has an integrated electronics suite, and according to the photos at least one, possibly two, camera housing (optical + TI?) in front, one in back and two on each flank, then possibly the driver, commander, gunner and dismounts all have 360 degrees and day/night outside view on their flat screens. Purely speculation, though.

I wonder why they went back to the external mounted 60mm mortar, when they have used internal mounted in Merkava 3 and 4. Probably the same reason as no drivers hatch, because of protection? Or cost saving?

One question (please ask me to STFU if you cannot discuss it): The Namer has 3 white, glassed apertures on each front side. As the vehicle has no other visible front lights, I gather that these apertures are in fact the front lights? Normal white, IR and directional?



Edit because of a certain lack of coordination between brain and fingers.

Sorry Jason,
I can't say anything else on the cameras except they are really easy to use even for a klutz like me.

cheers
Marsh

Hi Zakk,

I cant comment on the number of armoured cameras, but the driver, commander, gunner and certain dismounts all have 360 degrees and day/night outside view on their flat screens.

I don't know the exact reason for the external mortar and do not want to speculate.

Erm, no comment on the glassed apertures.

cheers
Marsh

I would also guess that the Israelis are prone to the heavy APC for a logistic (and to a lesser extent economic) reason - they intend to fight defensive or short range offensive wars. They don't have the long logistic train that the US has in Iraq, for example, and can be less concerned with fuel.

The fact that IDF soldiers didn't want to ride inside the M113 may have led to the conclusion that a heavily-armoured APC is needed?

IMO heavy APC makes logical sense: Why shouldn't a vehicle that carries more than 10 human lives have the same level of protection as a tank?

...

In IDF is there a difference in role between a heavy APC and a ordinary APC? Or simply a case of whatever is available?

Heretic! Burn him! Or better yet, have him read Combatreform pages 100 times!

Hopefully there'll be a resurgence of the population of Namers then, heavily armoured and tracked they may be though.

I still can't get over with the size of the thing.

I reckon there are backups in case the cameras go offline for one reason or the other...?

Can't wait to see the variants if and when funding is available.

Hi Thomas,
The driver has episcopes if the electronics go down. The comander has 360 degree vision with good old fashioned optics as does the gunner. The infantry have a peep hole and sniper port through the rear hatch. not perfect, but better than most AFVs.
cheers
Marsh

Hi Marsh, do you know if Trophy APS is going to be installed on Namers?

Hi,
Both Trophy and Iron Fist are being evaluated. no idea which will be chosen.

cheers
Marsh

Were you able to get any estimates on basic armor thickness?

Hi,
Its thick... You can't of course get any estimates of effective armour thickness on any modern AFV, its not the thickness of the armour but its capability that count. The Namer has probably double the external voume of a Stryker. It has an almost identical internal volume.

cheers
Marsh

Marsh,
You talk too much! Beseder?

Zvika,
Thank you for your concern for Israel's security. I share it.
All the information I have put on here, is common sense. The armour of the Namer is "pretty thick." Do you really think that Israel's enemies do not know this? In any case, all material I have put on this site has been cleared for publication by MANTAK and Field Security. Believe me, if you wanted more detail, there is at least one well known Israeli site which includes far more, including photographs, not cleared by anybody.


Marsh

edited for spelling

Eeee, ba gum!

Well,
My Dad wore a flat cap, a mate kept a whippet till it was sick all over the house, but I don't know anyone who keeps pigeons.
Marsh

Moussa....A ha....we now know that the wicked new tank of the accursed Yehud has 'pretty thick armor'.
Salem..... Hmmm....what does that mean?
Moussa....Well....probably something between not very thick and extremely thick.
Salem.....Not helpful.
Moussa.... I told you these stupid forums are a bloody waste of time.......
Salem...... What like the 'OT-64' flame tank and the idiotic Supergavin crap....?
Moussa.... Precisely. Do you know how much I spent on reprinting our recognition cards to read Zelda/Gavin?
Salem...... It's a lousy Yehud plot.....

Gavin thread is the ESSENCE...




Marsh, any details about how long need to wait for Namer-update publication?