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gorf
QUOTE(Przezdzieblo @ Wed 27 Jun 2007 2131) *
Information was found on Polish disscussion board. Human source (wink.gif) of it mentioned Ynetnews PLUS some Palestinian forums. So in the case of the second tank Ynetnews tells us only about one tank vs ATGM and two slightly injured soldiers, "others" gives additional info/rumour (wasn`t it called RUMINT?) that vehicle burned out with two of it`s crew hurt badly.

Sorry but that's complete nonsense.
Tuccy
QUOTE(eckherl @ Wed 27 Jun 2007 2352) *
And how do you know this type of information, the IDF was shaken up with the possibility that they were facing a large number of AT - 14s, did they not even travel to Russia to voice their concerns.


That was Lebanon and Hezbolllah, in Ghaza I'd guess PG-7VM and clones are the main threat...

The description on Ynetnews (two soldiers firing from a tank, injured when tank was hit) leaves me guessing the cause of the injuries was "the usual one" - splinters and shrapnel from the warhead hitting unbuttoned crewmembers. Seems most probable to me.
Przezdzieblo
QUOTE(gorf @ Wed 27 Jun 2007 2337) *
Sorry but that's complete nonsense.


No need for sorry. I was not involved in that incidents, I only refer RUMINT around it.

One more text and link about it, Russian only:

Тревога в ЦАХАЛе: в Газе подбит самый современный танк "Меркава-4"

В ходе вчерашних боев в секторе Газы палестинцам удалось подбить танк "Меркава-4". В армии выражают большую тревогу в связи с этим инцидентом, так как речь идет о самой современной боевой машине, стоящей на вооружении ЦАХАЛа.

Как сообщает сегодня, 27 июня, газета "Маарив", танковое соединение попало под плотный огонь, который вели из РПГ палестинские боевики. Несколько снарядов попали в головную машину и прошили обшивку. Два танкиста получили ранения.

По словам командира подразделения, броня танка отразила большинство выстрелов, однако в итоге машины причинен значительный ущерб. Он также отметил, что члены экипажа получили легкие осколочные ранения. "Будь броня чуть менее надежной, последствия могли быть гораздо печальнее", - сказал офицер.

В пресс-служба ЦАХАЛа пояснили, что защита "Меркавы-4" была усилена после Второй ливанской войны, в ходе которой Израиль потерял до 50 танков. В настоящее время продолжается доводка этой машины, которая в ближайшее время должна получить систему упредительного огня, разработанную концерном РАФАЭЛ.

http://cursorinfo.co.il/news/novosti/2007/06/28/tank/

Multiple RPG hits, some "reflected" (or ineffective), but finally some pierced, two of crew injured (but do not know when inside or because of splinters).

There is also information that in last war in Lebanon Israel lost 50 tanks. AFAIR Tanknetters show that number might be too high.
gorf
QUOTE(Przezdzieblo @ Thu 28 Jun 2007 0848) *
No need for sorry. I was not involved in that incidents, I only refer RUMINT around it.

One more text and link about it, Russian only:

Thanks. Well this text confirsm Ynet report about 2 lighly injured. I will try to find the original Maariv article.
Catalan
QUOTE(Przezdzieblo @ Thu 28 Jun 2007 0148) *
There is also information that in last war in Lebanon Israel lost 50 tanks. AFAIR Tanknetters show that number might be too high.


I thought it was something like 50 accurate hits, but only 5 tanks lost?
gorf
QUOTE(Catalan @ Thu 28 Jun 2007 1525) *
I thought it was something like 50 accurate hits, but only 5 tanks lost?

You'r right, journalists often confuse between hit and destroyed.
Sardaukar
Well...Merk 3 looks mean... Merk 4 looks like clam suckin a straw...that means it have to suck, right ??? biggrin.gif
DADI
QUOTE(Catalan @ Thu 28 Jun 2007 1525) *
I thought it was something like 50 accurate hits, but only 5 tanks lost?


IIRC, only one Merkava was destroyed as result of a AT missle hit.
zakk
QUOTE(Sardaukar @ Fri 29 Jun 2007 1026) *
Merk 4 looks like clam suckin a straw...

Spot on. The 120mm gun looks so tiny on the Merkava 4. They really need to put something larger on it. Something 280mmish could probably fit nicely...
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_atomic.php3
Sardaukar
Official numbers are classified, I think, but do anyone have estimate how many Merkava 4s are in service ? Nowadays all I seem to see on TV or pics are Merk 4s and lesser extent Merk 3s. Is that because of area of operation (Gaza etc.) or because things like Magach have been relegated to war-time stock etc. ?
DADI
QUOTE(Sardaukar @ Sat 7 Jul 2007 0544) *
Official numbers are classified, I think, but do anyone have estimate how many Merkava 4s are in service ? Nowadays all I seem to see on TV or pics are Merk 4s and lesser extent Merk 3s. Is that because of area of operation (Gaza etc.) or because things like Magach have been relegated to war-time stock etc. ?


The numbers are easy to figure out.
3 active, regular service, combat tank brigades.
7th - Merkava 2
188 - Merkava 3
401 - Merkava 4
Armour School Brigade is made of all 3 Marks.
So in daily combat missions you will see either, pending on the battalion currently in the area.

A full brigade is approx 100 tanks.
LeoTanker
QUOTE(DADI @ Mon 9 Jul 2007 1358) *
The numbers are easy to figure out.
3 active, regular service, combat tank brigades.
7th - Merkava 2
188 - Merkava 3
401 - Merkava 4
Armour School Brigade is made of all 3 Marks.
So in daily combat missions you will see either, pending on the battalion currently in the area.

A full brigade is approx 100 tanks.


Thats not very mouch.. What happened to the tousands (well, almost anyway) Israel used to have back in the days? Stored somewhere in the desert, huh? Cause they cant all have been sent to the junk yard, right?
baboon6
QUOTE(LeoTanker @ Mon 9 Jul 2007 1451) *
Thats not very mouch.. What happened to the tousands (well, almost anyway) Israel used to have back in the days? Stored somewhere in the desert, huh? Cause they cant all have been sent to the junk yard, right?


There are also reserve units with Merkavas. How many brigades I don't know.
DADI
QUOTE(baboon6 @ Mon 9 Jul 2007 2022) *
There are also reserve units with Merkavas. How many brigades I don't know.


There are quite a few reserve tank brigades. Those include Magachs, Merkava 1, 2 and 3.
gorf
QUOTE(LeoTanker @ Mon 9 Jul 2007 1951) *
Thats not very mouch.. What happened to the tousands (well, almost anyway) Israel used to have back in the days? Stored somewhere in the desert, huh? Cause they cant all have been sent to the junk yard, right?

Israel had max 6 regular armor brigades from 1968 till 1984, when was dispanded 14th brigade.

In 1992 was disbanded 221th, so remained 4 brigades.

In 2003 - 500th
DADI
QUOTE(gorf @ Thu 12 Jul 2007 0312) *
Israel had max 6 regular armor brigades from 1968 till 1984, when was dispanded 14th brigade.

In 1992 was disbanded 221th, so remained 4 brigades.

In 2003 - 500th


211th
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