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Harkonnen
History of Soviet tanks – T-72 difference from T-64/ T-80


Maybe this will explain that T-72 was not the only and not the best Soviet tank....


Contrary to the basic believe of the western and even Russian public T-72 is not a development of T-64A (the Soviet Main Battle Tank). T-72 vas development of Ural design bureau experimental tank that lost the competition to T-64 predecessor o. 430. That is why T-72 use the 22 rounds autoloader previously planned for modernized T-62. A completely different drivetrain and different turret.
The T-72 series itself was a “mobilization” tank of the soviet army. It was designed for mass production in war time in huge numbers.





T-72 predecessor o. 140 and 167



The most important threads of Soviet tank development before 1966

Basically the first automatic fire control and gun-lunched missile appeared on T-64B in 1976. Then it was installed on T-80. The automatic fire control was never installed on T-72 or it’s versions.
The same story with armor – while the T-64-s and T-80 was equipment with high cost composite armor the T-72 had the simplest possible sand rods and then reflecting plates which were much less valuable than advanced compositions of T-80U …
So the key idea is that T-72 was not the primary Soviet tank, it was exported worldwide to any nation possible. While no T-64 or T-80 was ever exported (After Soviet Union T-80U was exported to ROK, Cyprus and T-80UD to Pakistan)…



The most important threads of Soviet tank development after 1966

FIRE CONTROL

1-st T-72 and T-80/64 were equipped with different guns.
T-80/64 received newest guns much before T-72-variants.

T-64 fire control consists of (basic information)

Targeting complex 1A34
-laser sight 1G42 with block of shot permission 1G43 and tank ballistic computer 1V517.
The AUTOMATIC sensors of entering information are
Heel sensor 1B14
Wind sensor 1B11
relative bearing sensor
tank speed sensor

The following information is entered before combat manually is temperature of the air, type of ammunition batch, atmosphere pressure, charge temperature, air temperature, barrel wear.

In the automatic fire control the correction factor for target range, tank speed, target speed, wind are entered automatically. The gunner just puts the mark on the target and the gun is adjusted automatically to required position, the mark does not change it’s position.


What is T-72B fire control –

The automatic fire control was not installed on T-72.
Instead of ballistic computer the tank is equipped with ballistic corrector.
The correction factor for target range tank speed, target speed, wind are not entered automatically. The wind correction factor is measured “by eye” (until the last serial versions and T-72C).
The gunner puts the mark on the target measures the range with LRF, the mark moves lover depending on range … It requires more time then with automatic FCS.
Another diference of T-72B from T-64/80B is that T-72 can not fire guided missiles while moving…



placements of fire control elements inside the T-72B combat compartament

1 – executive cylinder of vertical drive VN
2 – Block for entering corrections
3 – guidance block for 9K120
4 – control block
5 – converter for 9K120
6 – electric module of 1A40-1
7 – round
8 – guided missile
9 – block for entering range
10 – horizontal drive GN
12 – electric machine booster
13 – 1K13 sight
14 - 1A40-1 targeting complex
Xonitex
Thanks, Harkonnen! I know someone on this board has made animated 3D models of the autoloaders of the T-72 and the T-64/T-80. Is it dejawolf? Anyways, could someone post a link to those?
bad-dice
That certainly helps to colour some of the grey areas.

You imply T-64/80B can fire the guided missile while moving. Is this at full speed, half or very slow?

Thanks

Rob
Harkonnen
QUOTE(bad-dice @ Sun 8 Jan 2006 2258)
That certainly helps to colour some of the grey areas.

You imply T-64/80B can fire the guided missile while moving. Is this at full speed, half or very slow?

Thanks

Rob
*


30 km/h but it may depend on terrain
Rickshaw
Would it be possible for you to provide the diagrams with translated labels?

What are the three shadow silouhettes in the second diagram on the right? Projected vehicles?
Daniel Papp
Harkonnen,

when did the T-64 (115mm) and the T-64A vesion (125mm) and the T-72 appear? Did T-72 have 125mm gun from the beginning?
Stefan Kotsch
Many T-64 were equipped with the TPD-2-49. Still in the year 1992 I sat in Schwerin/Germany in a T-64 with the TPD-2-49.
A number of T-64 had nevertheless also the FCS with the sight 1G21?
Rick Griest
So Stephan, did you ever range using the TPD-2-49? How long did it take, how accurate, etc. By the way, your T-64 site is really good. thanks.
Rick
Jim Warford
Harkonnen; great topic...good work. I have a few questions:

1. Wasn't the T-64A known as the Object 434 (not Ob. 439)?

2. While some T-64As were upgraded with more advanced fire control systems including LRFs eventually, the first T-64s to have the LRF were the T-64B right?

3. While you've already mentioned that the T-90A is the welded-turret version of the T-90S/T-90M used by the Russian Army, did you leave the T-90S off your chart since it is intended for export?

4. What is the Object 178?

5. IIRC, the Object 447 is the Ukrainian Molot...correct? What can you tell us about this tank...do you have news about its status?
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Wasn't the T-64A known as the Object 434 (not Ob. 439)?
No, 439 is V-type diesel version of T-64 made by Kharkiv design bureau for production in Niznii Taagil.
But they did not want to produce it and developed the tank from they “line” of development.
Only 3 o. 439 were produced. They were called o. 173 according to Tagil’s index.

QUOTE
While some T-64As were upgraded with more advanced fire control systems including LRFs eventually, the first T-64s to have the LRF were the T-64B right?


Yes. The T-64A featured TPD-2-1, TPD-2-49 and then TPD-K1

QUOTE
did you leave the T-90S off your chart since it is intended for export?
No export version showed though the Russian line for mass production of welded turrets appeared mainly due to full scale Indian contract.

QUOTE
What is the Object 178?


It is full scale T-72 series development which first featured welded turret (but not the same as T-90C/A) and a completely new hull and a new gun with new types of ammunition. The protection of the sides were greatly increased, the tank featured various experimental diesels also as gas turbine.
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Harkonnen,

when did the T-64 (115mm) and the T-64A vesion (125mm) and the T-72 appear? Did T-72 have 125mm gun from the beginning?


Yes, T-72 initially appeared with 125 mm gun.
Irwin_Rommel
QUOTE(Xonitex @ Sun 8 Jan 2006 1710)
Thanks, Harkonnen!  I know someone on this board has made animated 3D models of the autoloaders of the T-72 and the T-64/T-80.  Is it dejawolf?  Anyways, could someone post a link to those?
*



http://www.dejawolf.com/steelbeasts/gallery/t72M1.html

see the link at the bottom of the page
Harkonnen
QUOTE(Irwin_Rommel @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 0953)
http://www.dejawolf.com/steelbeasts/gallery/t72M1.html

see the link at the bottom of the page
*


Why no other pages of tanks open on thet page?
Irwin_Rommel
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 0517)
Why no other pages of tanks open on thet page?
*


I think he is still preparing the pages, but the M113 and that German tank killer pages open.
DRW
Good posting, very informative.

I am very interested in the development of the one labled 640 and what appears to be the predecessor. I believe these are refered to as the "Black Eagle". It is my understanding that they are not in production and not scheduled to be fielded due to funding issues. Rumors have it the Russians are trying to export it in order to raise the funding for their own production. How accurate is that? I am also greatly curous about the fire control system and the loader mechanics.
Stefan Kotsch
QUOTE(Rick Griest @ Sun 8 Jan 2006 2259)
So Stephan, did you ever range using the TPD-2-49?  How long did it take, how accurate, etc.  By the way, your T-64 site is really good.  thanks.
    Rick
*


Measuring takes only some seconds. The middle error was with 3%. The quality of the gunner and the current view conditions are crucial.
I was not trained no more at the TPD-2-49. The east german army NVA had only T-72 with the TPD-K1 (LRF). Before it a test series with TPD-2-49 was bought.
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Good posting, very informative.

I am very interested in the development of the one labled 640 and what appears to be the predecessor.


There are 2 types of future tank basicly known as Back Eagle - 1-st is Unified Turret ussed for upgrade existing tanks like T-80 with anti tandem Kaktus ERA

2-nd is a cjompletely new tank o 640 with the similar looking but completely different turret. The drawing can explain the difference.

Jim Warford
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 0930)
No, 439 is V-type diesel version of T-64 made by Kharkiv design bureau for production in Niznii Taagil. But they did not want to produce it and developed the tank from they “line” of development.

So, the production T-64A with the flat (opposed-piston) Kharkov engine was the Object 434...right?

It is full scale T-72 series development which first featured welded turret (but not the same as T-90C/A) and a completely new hull and a new gun with new types of ammunition. The protection of the sides  were greatly increased, the tank featured various experimental diesels also as gas turbine.

I remember reading about a welded-turret variant of the T-72 years ago...are any photos available? Are you saying that it was put into production or was it a prototype only?

Any info on the Molot? What info is available regarding the relationship between the Molot and the T-95?
*
Harkonnen
QUOTE
So, the production T-64A with the flat (opposed-piston) Kharkov engine was the Object 434...right?
432 - T-64
434 - Т-64A

432 (T-64) with V-diesel - 436
434 (T-64A) with V-diesel (V-45) - 438 (later renamed 439)

QUOTE
It is full scale T-72 series development which first featured welded turret (but not the same as T-90C/A) and a completely new hull and a new gun with new types of ammunition. The protection of the sides  were greatly increased, the tank featured various experimental diesels also as gas turbine.



QUOTE
I remember reading about a welded-turret variant of the T-72 years ago...are any photos available? Are you saying that it was put into production or was it a prototype only?
No it is not T-72 with welded-turret, it is a tank based on T-72 with new HULL and new turret, not mentioning the new gun and autoloader...
Photos are not awailible for reliese. You may look at the drawing.



QUOTE
Any info on the Molot? What info is available regarding the relationship between the Molot and the T-95?


The tank prototypes ware ready in 87, then it gous several modification and final SSSR broke up. The technolagy was exchanged with Russia. The trials continued up to 2000 ... later information is not known.
Charles
No it is not T-72 with welded-turret, it is a tank based on T-72 with new HULL and new turret, not mentioning the new gun and autoloader...
Photos are not awailible for reliese. You may look at the drawing.

Harkonnen,
Thank you for the brilliant diagrammes. Very interesting thread.
Would the drawing of the Tank based on the T-72 be the T-72 with the 120mm smoothbore?. It look's similar to the photo someone posted a few weeks back.

Thank you

Charles
RETAC21
I have a question on the T-80 and its derivatives. How comes in 1987 there were only a few hundreds (per Lenskii) deployed in Germany? what was the rate of production like?. thanks.
Harkonnen
QUOTE(RETAC21 @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1745)
I have a question on the T-80 and its derivatives. How comes in 1987 there were only a few hundreds (per Lenskii) deployed in Germany? what was the rate of production like?. thanks.
*


What is it per Lenskii ?

There were 2256 T-80 in GSVG. Not including a training and special units (maybe up to 400).
Jim Warford
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1454)
No it is not T-72 with welded-turret, it is a tank based on T-72 with new HULL and new turret, not mentioning the new gun and autoloader...
Photos are not awailible for reliese. You may look at the drawing.



Did this tank ever go into production (beyond testing) and service? Did the main gun actually have the muzzle-brake as shown in the drawing?

*
Stefan Kotsch
This mystery could solve so far nobody. Unfortunately I did not have a cm-tape thereby. 115 or 125 mm, i think 125 mm. It is a T-64 and its gun has also a muzzle brake.

It's not a fake !

gnocci
QUOTE(Stefan Kotsch @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1605)
This mystery could solve so far nobody. Unfortunately I did not have a cm-tape  thereby. 115 or 125 mm, i think 125 mm. It is a T-64 and its gun has also a muzzle brake.
*


I've seen photos somewhere of tanks "demilitarized" with holes in the barrell. Just a way of making sure the gun barrell could not be used.
Could be the case?

Edit: is i remember right, it was to comply with a legal limitation so the the tank could be handed to civilians, or something like that...
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Did this tank ever go into production (beyond testing) and service? Did the main gun actually have the muzzle-brake as shown in the drawing?


This tank is not going to service but dessisions tested on it will go.
Yes, the gun has 2-chamber muzzle-brake but it may look slightly different from the drawing.
Harkonnen
QUOTE
I've seen photos somewhere of tanks "demilitarized" with holes in the barrell. Just a way of making sure the gun barrell could not be used.
Could be the case?


The suppose gun on this "o. 447" can be used with such "demilitarization" smile.gif
Gavin-Phillips
I remember reading about the object 167 vehicle, a super modified T-62! laugh.gif What's the deal with adding track return rollers?

The chart of Soviet tanks post-1966 is very curious, especially one of the 3 silhouetted vehicles, one of them is obviously the T-95, but whats the bottom one called? Hull silhouette almost looks like its the S-tank with a turreted gun blink.gif
RETAC21
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1801)
What is it per Lenskii

There were 2256 T-80 in GSVG. Not including a training and special units (maybe up to 400).
*


Yes. but out of 20.000 or so produced, isn't it? where were the others?
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Hull silhouette almost looks like its the S-tank with a turreted gun


It is a new design of Leningrad's Spetsmash KB and the designer of T-80 N.S. Popov.
The forward engine 152 mm armed tank with crew of 2 in the hull middle.



Harkonnen
QUOTE
Yes. but out of 20.000 or so produced, isn't it? where were the others?


Do you think Germany is the only place in the world to place T-80? Along with 2.5 + T-80-s there were about the same number of T-64 there.
gnocci
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1643)
The suppose gun on this "o. 447" can be used with such "demilitarization"  smile.gif
*

Well, at least it will be easy to spot when it fires smile.gif
Stefan Kotsch
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1443)
The suppose gun on this "o. 447" can be used with such "demilitarization"  smile.gif
*



That cannot be demilitarization. The inside diameter of the muzzle brake is larger than the caliber. The holes are very accurately bored. No, that is a unknown modification of the 125 mm, assumes I.
RETAC21
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 2046)
Do you think Germany is the only place in the world to place T-80? Along with 2.5 + T-80-s there were about the same number of T-64 there.
*


In 1987? no, there were only 838 T-80s versus 5.558 other tanks, mainly T-64, so if the T-80 was one of the better tanks, intended to replace (or complement?) the T-64 and in production since 1978 (that would be a production of 1.500 per year if in 1990 there were 20.000) I am puzzled as to where they ended up.
DRW
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Mon 9 Jan 2006 1544)
It is a new design of Leningrad's Spetsmash KB and the designer of T-80 N.S. Popov.
The forward engine 152 mm armed tank with crew of 2 in the hull middle.




*


Interesting! I've seen very similar designs for the American FCS program. Is Russia now back to making aircrft that look very close to F-15s, passanger jets that have the concord appearance and so on and tank designs found on the internet as possible western replacement MBTs?
savantu
QUOTE(RETAC21 @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1132)
In 1987? no, there were only 838 T-80s versus 5.558 other tanks, mainly T-64, so if the T-80 was one of the better tanks, intended to replace (or complement?) the T-64 and in production since 1978 (that would be a production of 1.500 per year if in 1990 there were 20.000) I am puzzled as to where they ended up.
*



The USSR wasn't small by any means..

Heck they had 6 Tank armies throughout the cold war while the Brits had 4 divisions and the US 12....

Remember that in the russian way of handling tanks , 99% are mothballed all the time and training is done on a small number of tanks...

With all the economic collapse of 1989 , the Soviet Union produced 3000 MBTs that year...That's T72,T80 and possibly some T64 too.
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Interesting! I've seen very similar designs for the American FCS program. Is Russia now back to making aircrft that look very close to F-15s, passanger jets that have the concord appearance and so on and tank designs found on the internet as possible western replacement MBTs?


What do you talking about ? What aircraft very close to F-15s If you have nothing to say better be silient.
Harkonnen
QUOTE
In 1987? no, there were only 838 T-80s versus 5.558 other tanks, mainly T-64, so if the T-80 was one of the better tanks, intended to replace (or complement?) the T-64 and in production since 1978 (that would be a production of 1.500 per year if in 1990 there were 20.000) I am puzzled as to where they ended up


838? First you said several hundreds
there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.

DRW
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 0630)
What do you talking about ? What aircraft very close to F-15s If you have nothing to say better be silient.
*


Don't get snappy with me! I'm making an observation that is widely supported. The F-15 enters production quickly followed by a series of Russian aircraft with similar charasteristics and appearances. The Concord is hearlded as a furturistic aircraft that was supposed to change public transportation. Russians spies were identified and covertly given fake blueprints of the Concord. The Russians built their copy but reportedly had numerous problems. There are several other examples of western countries developing an iten to suddenly see an incrediblly resembling copy come out of Russia a few years later. Now we have a picture of a possible Russian MBT that looks like an American FCS design I saw about ten or more years ago. I don't think its just coinsidence. If you can't beat'm, emulate'm.

Lets face it. Russian military has taken a huge number of blows in the last ten years; Iraqi T-72s, The Kursk, Chechnya, and the rusting Black Sea fleet are but a few. The Russians have lost a lot of money on military exports and are trying hard to recover. They are getting some good deals out of Pakistan, China and such but not like in the old days.
RETAC21
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1132)
838?  First you said several hundreds
there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.


*


What's the source?

Here's what I have:

"Изменение танкового парка ГСВГ/ЗГВ (строевые соединения и части)
на 01.01.87 (штат/в т.ч. факт Т-80) - на 19.Х1.90 (факт)

1-я гв. ТА
9-я тд - 328 (в т.ч. 11 Т-80) - 238 (Т-80)
11-я гв.тд - 328 (в т.ч. 20 Т-80) - 295 (Т-80)
20-ягв.мсд - 271 (-) - 154 (Т-80)
отд.танковый полк - 94 (в т.ч. 9 Т-80) - (-)
всего: 1021 (в т.ч. 40 Т-80) - 687 (Т-80)

2-я гв. ТА
16-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 21 Т-80) - 250 (Т-80)
21 -я гв. Мсд: 271 (в т.ч. 94 Т-80) - 155 (Т-80)
94-я гв. Мсд: 271 (в т.ч. 207 Т-80) - 274 (Т-80)
207-я мсд: 271 (-) - 155 (Т-80)
отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 16 Т-80) - (-)
всего: 1235 (в т.ч. 338 Т-80) - 834 (в т.ч. 560 Т-80)

3-яОА
7-я гв.тд: 328 (в т.ч. ЮТ-80) - выведена
10-я гв.тд: 328 (в т.ч. 12 Т-80) - 364 (Т-80)
12-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 47 Т-80) - выведена
47-я гв. Тд: 328 (-) - 322 (Т-64)
отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 7 Т-80) - (-)
всего: 1406 (в т.ч. 76 Т-80) - 686 (в т.ч. 364 Т-80)

8-я гв.ОА
27-я гв. Мед: 271 (в т.ч. 27 Т-80) - 225 (Т-80)
39-я гв. Мсд: 271 (в т.ч. 57 Т-80) - 155 (Т-80)
57-я гв. Мсд: 271 (-) - 256 (Т-80)
79-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 37 Т-80) - 322 (Т-80)
отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 79 Т-80) - (-)
всего: 1235 (в т.ч. 202 Т-80) - 958 (Т-80)

20-я гв.ОА
25-я тд: 328 (в т.ч. 32 Т-80) - выведена
32-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 90 Т-80) - выведена
35-я мсд: 271 (-) - 149 (Т-80)
90-я гв. Тд: 328 (в т.ч. 35 Т-80) - 249 (Т-80)
отд. танковый полк: 94 (в т.ч. 25 Т-80) - (-)
6-я отд. гв. Берлинская бригада: 150 (-) - 141 (Т-64)

всего: 1499 (в т.ч. 182 Т-80) - 539 (в т.ч. 398 Т-80)

Итого в линейных: 6396 (в т.ч. 838 Т-80) - 4024 (в т.ч. 2967 Т-80)

I appreciate your help in reconciling all this.
RETAC21
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1132)
838?  First you said several hundreds
there were 2256 T-80 and 3990 T-64 A/in GSVG in 1986-87.

*


Add them up on your table, they sum 838 too! huh.gif
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Add them up on your table, they sum 838 too! 


My souce T-80 Tank (M. baryatinski)
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Don't get snappy with me! I'm making an observation that is widely supported.
Don't eat what is "widely supported", use you personal brains.

QUOTE
The F-15 enters production quickly followed by a series of Russian aircraft with similar charasteristics and appearances. The Concord is hearlded as a furturistic aircraft that was supposed to change public transportation. Russians spies were identified and covertly given fake blueprints of the Concord. The Russians built their copy but reportedly had numerous problems. There are several other examples of western countries developing an iten to suddenly see an incrediblly resembling copy come out of Russia a few years later. Now we have a picture of a possible Russian MBT that looks like an American FCS design I saw about ten or more years ago. I don't think its just coinsidence. If you can't beat'm, emulate'm.


You are another victim of mass media. You may have seen such american FCS design about ten years ago, how do you know WHEN Russians used it to make such stupid claims.

Look here – it is Mig -25 (1969) and F-15 (1972)



So the US copied Mig-25! What a shame! biggrin.gif

And this evil Europeans copied Russian Mig-23 PREDECESSOR!!!



From 1962! laugh.gif


QUOTE
Lets face it. Russian military has taken a huge number of blows in the last ten years; Iraqi T-72s, The Kursk, Chechnya, and the rusting Black Sea fleet are but a few.
You are another flamer in this topic.

QUOTE
The Russians have lost a lot of money on military exports and are trying hard to recover. They are getting some good deals out of Pakistan, China and such


Can you name Russian deals with Pakistan?

QUOTE
but not like in the old days.


During several recent years Russia almost reached the scale of military trade of Soviet Union.
LOSBLOS
So the key idea is that T-72 was not the primary Soviet tank, it was exported worldwide to any nation possible. While no T-64 or T-80 was ever exported (After Soviet Union T-80U was exported to ROK, Cyprus and T-80UD to Pakistan)…



The most important threads of Soviet tank development after 1966
*

[/quote]

Other information says:
Ob194/195(Nizhny Tagil) Ob449X(Molozov) Ob230X/231X/232X(Popov)
are competing for T-95, and the Ob195 won, became T-95.

Looks like the three black profiles of all7zr.gif just fit in: laugh.gif
Upper (T-95) =====> Ob194/195
Middle (Ob447)====> Ob449X
Lower==========> Ob230X /231X /232X

Is there any further clue about the development about T-95? smile.gif
Charles
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1305)
And this evil Europeans copied Russian Mig-23 PREDECESSOR!!!



From 1962! laugh.gif


Harkonnen, Why was this protoype dropped for the Mig 23?. Would it be for the same reasons that UK TSR 2 was dropped (similar time period)?

[attachment=421:attachment]
Harkonnen
QUOTE(Charles @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1332)
Harkonnen, Why was this protoype dropped for the Mig 23?. Would it be for the same reasons that UK TSR 2 was dropped (similar time period)?

[attachment=421:attachment]
*



This protoype was dropped because the military wished veried wing geometry plane, it was fashionable that days. Though the plane showed excellent results after the crash of the 1-st prototype no futher fights were dne.
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Other information says:
Ob194/195(Nizhny Tagil) Ob449X(Molozov) Ob230X/231X/232X(Popov)
are competing for T-95, and the Ob195 won, became T-95.

Looks like the three black profiles of all7zr.gif just fit in: 
Upper (T-95) =====> Ob194/195
Middle (Ob447)====> Ob449X
Lower==========> Ob230X /231X /232X


I assume your info is from chiniese "Tanks and armored vechicles"?
Maybe 449 it is another mod of 447M or so. Anyway Ukrainian tank could not compete with Russians after the USSR broke apart.
As for the Popov's tans they are working in a bit another field this days - unmanned combat and support vechicles.
Funny the Spezmash 2 -mann tank hull was shown accidantly on TV during the water test, the comentor said it is new swimming tank laugh.gif
Charles
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1338)
This protoype was dropped  because the military wished veried wing geometry plane, it was fashionable that days. Though the plane showed excellent results after the crash of the 1-st prototype no futher fights were dne.
*


Harkonnen,Thank you.
Shame really, that looks like a real beautiful interceptor, especially for 1962. Looks like both East and West were Designing and prototyping some lovely aircraft back then. TSR2, B 70 to name but a few that got cancelled; but performed superbly. Apologies for taking this a little off topic smile.gif
Back to the Tanks tongue.gif

Charles
LOSBLOS
QUOTE(Harkonnen @ Tue 10 Jan 2006 1344)
I assume your info is from  chiniese "Tanks and armored vechicles"?
Maybe 449 it is another mod of 447M or so. Anyway Ukrainian tank could not compete with Russians after the USSR broke apart.
As for the Popov's tans they are working in a bit another field this days - unmanned combat and support vechicles. 
Funny the Spezmash 2 -mann tank hull was shown accidantly on TV during the water test, the comentor said it is new swimming tank  laugh.gif
*


Yes, you are right. laugh.gif
From Chinese "Tanks and armored vechicles" (ISSN 1001-8778) 2004 December, pp. 16-19.

It says the competition was in late 1980s,
After the break up of USSR, the 449X is out.

Although it looks to fit in, all the pictures in the Chinese magazine looks very different from the black profiles in all7_.gif. rolleyes.gif
Harkonnen
QUOTE
Although it looks to fit in, all the pictures in the Chinese magazine looks very different from the black profiles in all7_.gif.


Some Chieniese 3D max expert .... smile.gif
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