I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?
Full Version: Polish PT-91A photos
PT-91A in exercise.
I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?
I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?
Does anyone know what the two black vertical cylinders, that are approximately the same size as the smoke grenade dischargers, and located on each side of the gun barrel in the turret front, and, are?
I think they are gravitational sensors to detect changes to the atmosphere outside of the vehicle, also maintains a stable temporal flux shield around the vehicle to protect it from getting sucks in the a singularity.. iow I dont have a clue...
Great pics btw
How do the PT-91 series defer to other upgraded T-72s?
Great pics btw
How do the PT-91 series defer to other upgraded T-72s?
QUOTE(A2Keltainen @ Mon 10 Oct 2005 0720)
Does anyone know what the two black vertical cylinders, that are approximately the same size as the smoke grenade dischargers, and located on each side of the gun barrel in the turret front, and, are?
Sensors of laser warning system.
LOARA LWRs to be precise. The Malaysian PT-91Ms chucked them in favour of Avimos.
Apart from the ERAWA, LWR, A shitload of Tucha smoke dischragers and the DRAWA-T FCS replacing the TPD-K1? I believe they also run a Wola Stawola Wola diesel, originally rated at 840hp.
Their stabiliser is still the old Soviet unit and not the rinky dinky souped up job that was fitted the the Malaysian tanks. The FCS gives them LRF and thermals but it doesn't have to fire-on the move capability of 2-axis stabed sights.
This is no longer the premier thank of the Polish Army. That would eb the Leo2A4.
Simon
Apart from the ERAWA, LWR, A shitload of Tucha smoke dischragers and the DRAWA-T FCS replacing the TPD-K1? I believe they also run a Wola Stawola Wola diesel, originally rated at 840hp.
Their stabiliser is still the old Soviet unit and not the rinky dinky souped up job that was fitted the the Malaysian tanks. The FCS gives them LRF and thermals but it doesn't have to fire-on the move capability of 2-axis stabed sights.
This is no longer the premier thank of the Polish Army. That would eb the Leo2A4.
Simon
Are the Polish still producing PT-91 for their own Army still?
QUOTE(Simon Tan @ Mon 10 Oct 2005 0803)
Their stabiliser is still the old Soviet unit and not the rinky dinky souped up job that was fitted the the Malaysian tanks. The FCS gives them LRF and thermals but it doesn't have to fire-on the move capability of 2-axis stabed sights.
Simon
Simon
You sure of that? I had thought the Drawa T did give fire on the move ability. IIRC it was mentioned on the Kotsch.de website.
I would have thought that the Pk would be lesser, but still fire on the move capability was there..
It does....but is limited by the original stabiliser which isn't really up to snuff for the cool demo video shots. That's why the T-90 runs the 1G46 Iyrtush stabiliser lifted from the T-80U series.
So you could probably engage manouvering targets while moving in a straight line .
So you could probably engage manouvering targets while moving in a straight line .
The other disadvantages of the PT-91 is that it is based on the T-72M1, the T-90 descends from the T-72BU. The gun in the PT-91 is still the 2A46M/M2, the armour of the T-91 should also be superior.
IIRC Malaysia adquired a number of them, even if in the trials it scored less than the T-91S, T-84M and CV-90120. The main reason was that the poles accepeted the payment scheme.
Regards.
IIRC Malaysia adquired a number of them, even if in the trials it scored less than the T-91S, T-84M and CV-90120. The main reason was that the poles accepeted the payment scheme.
Regards.
As I remember Malasian tanks are equiped with advanced Ukrainian guns.
Everyone has it wrong......
The gun is from Konstrukta in Slovakia and was probably the LAST thing that was finalised. They initially were supposed to go with the Polish 2A46 but that sucked hind tit when paired with the rinky dinky SAVAN 15 FCS so they had to go shopping. The Ukranians AND the Russians were approached but both fell trhough, inpart because both parties had lost out on the MBT contract amongst other things.
Strangely enough the Moderna T-72M2 was at one poitn considered the hot favourite...and that featured the Konstrukta gun and DYNA ERA.
As to the PT-91M 'winning'.....it was actually considered dead in the water. The T-84 and T-90 were the hot favourites and had come to Malaysia along with the CV90120 in 2002 for mobility trials in country. Our main training facility in Gemas was not ready and we didn't have any proper tnak ranges that would ahve been meaningul tests of the FCS at the time. The CV90 was delayed in Germany, missed the DSA show but made the mobility demo. It however was not kept for the extended mobililty trials that involved the T-84 and T-90. They both broke down.....
In 2003, Our Prime Minister went to Poland and during the trip took a spin in the PT-91 then dropped a bombshell declaring that we were going to buy the PT-91M which had been in KL years ago as the T-72M1Z with a South African Tiger FCS! It had been more or less kept alive by the agent and the Poles, who actually offered to bankroll the deal in the form of soft loans.
The big change was the acquisition of the Malaysian Mining Corporation by Syed Mokhtar al-Bukahri, a portege and darling of Dr. M. One of its subsidiaries was MMC Defense which already doing some work with refurbishing Malaysian Army vehicles like the SIBMAS and Kondors. They became the 'system integrator' of the T-91M and worked their magic and hey presto! When the deal was inked, a lot of subsystems were still to be decided. The word is that the Poles sweetened the deal with access to the East Silesian studs....the then PM being a bit of a horsey man.
The PT-91M is somewhat compromised by its crappy commander's sight, a day only, non-range finding VIGY 15.
The gun is from Konstrukta in Slovakia and was probably the LAST thing that was finalised. They initially were supposed to go with the Polish 2A46 but that sucked hind tit when paired with the rinky dinky SAVAN 15 FCS so they had to go shopping. The Ukranians AND the Russians were approached but both fell trhough, inpart because both parties had lost out on the MBT contract amongst other things.
Strangely enough the Moderna T-72M2 was at one poitn considered the hot favourite...and that featured the Konstrukta gun and DYNA ERA.
As to the PT-91M 'winning'.....it was actually considered dead in the water. The T-84 and T-90 were the hot favourites and had come to Malaysia along with the CV90120 in 2002 for mobility trials in country. Our main training facility in Gemas was not ready and we didn't have any proper tnak ranges that would ahve been meaningul tests of the FCS at the time. The CV90 was delayed in Germany, missed the DSA show but made the mobility demo. It however was not kept for the extended mobililty trials that involved the T-84 and T-90. They both broke down.....
In 2003, Our Prime Minister went to Poland and during the trip took a spin in the PT-91 then dropped a bombshell declaring that we were going to buy the PT-91M which had been in KL years ago as the T-72M1Z with a South African Tiger FCS! It had been more or less kept alive by the agent and the Poles, who actually offered to bankroll the deal in the form of soft loans.
The big change was the acquisition of the Malaysian Mining Corporation by Syed Mokhtar al-Bukahri, a portege and darling of Dr. M. One of its subsidiaries was MMC Defense which already doing some work with refurbishing Malaysian Army vehicles like the SIBMAS and Kondors. They became the 'system integrator' of the T-91M and worked their magic and hey presto! When the deal was inked, a lot of subsystems were still to be decided. The word is that the Poles sweetened the deal with access to the East Silesian studs....the then PM being a bit of a horsey man.
The PT-91M is somewhat compromised by its crappy commander's sight, a day only, non-range finding VIGY 15.
Hello,
You can go to my web site to see a technical data sheet and pictures about the PT-91.
This write in French, but you have a translator to the left of the page.
PT-91 Description and pictures
Greetings.
Alain
You can go to my web site to see a technical data sheet and pictures about the PT-91.
This write in French, but you have a translator to the left of the page.
PT-91 Description and pictures
Greetings.
Alain
QUOTE(Davin @ Mon 10 Oct 2005 0323)
PT-91A in exercise.
I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?
I'm interesting in its ERAWA ERA.
Does anybody knows that what is the difference on ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2?
Is PT-91A fitted with both of them?
About ERAWA - I am sure those ERA was mentioned at TN. But, once more:
ERAWA-1 is one layer ERA, ERAWA-2 is two layers ERA.
PT-91A seems to be designation of two different tanks:
- export version (circa `95), with S-1000 engine and Savan-15P FCS and both ERAWA-1 and -2 cells.
- [probably] T72M1 modernization with the most of PT-91 features, but with new tracks and Thompson communication system; primary it was designated PT-91A1 and accepted by army as PT-91A; S-12U 850 hp engines; ERAWA-1 and -2 cells
Tanks from pics might be PT-91A or T72M1Z
First serie of PT-91s had only ERAWA-1. 2nd and 3rd series got also ERAWA-2 (3rd serie also modular cells of both ERAWAs).
PT-91 LWR is SPP-1 Obra. Loara is a name of new AA system. PT-91M have SPP-1 Obra-3 LWR.
Smoke grenade launchers in early PT-91s were two different kind - 902B Tucha and Polish antilaser Tellur. It is possible that newer vehicles got uniformed launchers.
One more generalization of PT-91 types, not finally checked - but sources differs. So believe or believe not
PT-91 - both: tanks of first series (prototype got Drawa FCS, with passive night gunner sight; next vehicles got Drawa-T FCS with ElOp Elbow TI) and a name of a standard (new engine, FCS, ERA, Obra-1)
T-72M1Z - modernized T72M1, upgraded to PT-91 standard, mostly with both ERAWA-1 and -2, some new communication systems, 700 kg lighter from "normal" PT-91 (and with not changed belly)
PT-91A:
- export version demonstrator
- previously PT-91A1 modernization, tanks accepted by army
PT-91Z - export version demonstrator, very similar to 1st PT-91A, but with new modular ERA
PT-91M
PT-91B - some study project, next step in Twardy`s development, details unknown, cancelled
PT-91/120 - "leopardized" Twardy, with new turret and 120 mm gun, FCS etc.; it is possible that it is the same vehicle known also as PT-2000 (there was presented some model), more details unknown, cancelled
PT-91/120 was a project offered by Bumar-Labedy for the new Polish tank program, but OBRUM selected the PT-2001 Gepard.
PT-91B – intermediate model proposed by Bumar-Labedy to Polish government before PT-2001 production included new S-1000 engine by PZL Wola, new tracks and suspension. AAS-1 Tafios protection system and navigation complex.
PT-91B was planned not to lose tank producing capability before starting PT-2001 production.
But at the end they received some old Leo-2s
PT-91B – intermediate model proposed by Bumar-Labedy to Polish government before PT-2001 production included new S-1000 engine by PZL Wola, new tracks and suspension. AAS-1 Tafios protection system and navigation complex.
PT-91B was planned not to lose tank producing capability before starting PT-2001 production.
But at the end they received some old Leo-2s
It's all Polish top me......yes...I remember now, the Loara is the Gepard like AA tank!
PT-91M most certainly does not have Obra anymore. I'm surprised they seem to have kept the Polish pattern gernade launchers but there's really no reason why they cannot be sleeved to fire our 76mm German pattern grenades.
We use the Avimo on our ACV-300 (Souped up M113s).
Simon
PT-91M most certainly does not have Obra anymore. I'm surprised they seem to have kept the Polish pattern gernade launchers but there's really no reason why they cannot be sleeved to fire our 76mm German pattern grenades.
We use the Avimo on our ACV-300 (Souped up M113s).
Simon
QUOTE(Simon Tan @ Tue 11 Oct 2005 1032)
PT-91M most certainly does not have Obra anymore.
This one
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/alph...ch/DSC01010.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y229/alph...ch/DSC01011.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2470/pt91m0121jk.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4893/pt91m0169yn.jpg
has. Are you sure that next PT-91M would have no Obra-3?
I read today that there is something new in PT-91M - driver volant, no longer orginal T72 levers.
Harkonnen, thanks for more details.
Is that a Civil Defence badge on the front of the hull (orange circle with blue equilateral triangle superimposed)?
If it is, I can't see why it is on the front of a tank....
If it is, I can't see why it is on the front of a tank....
Przezdzieblo,
Very nice info.Thanks!
BTW,do you think Erawa-1 ERA better than Kontakt-1 ERA?
Very nice info.Thanks!
BTW,do you think Erawa-1 ERA better than Kontakt-1 ERA?
The two-plane stabilized sight-rangefinder 1G46 is produced by “Novosibirsk instrument-making plant” (NPZ) – see http://www.npz.sol.ru/katalog.php3?lng=eng&id=1g46 (possibly, the page will be slow for some remote users).
However it is insufficient for effective firing on the move, the sight should be supplemented with the electric horizontal and electric-hydraulic vertical drives of the main gun. They are produced by VNII “Signal” from Kovrov (the town in 150 km to the east of Moscow, reputed by its military production – SAM “Strela”/”Igla”, ATGM “Shturm”/”Ataka”, machine-guns etc.). Regretfully, its site is brief and only in Russian ( http://www.signal.kovrov.ru/ru/mbt.shtml ).
All these components can be installed on any T-72 or its derivatives.
Therefore, using such tanks without due stabilization is not the necessity, but the free democratic choice.
However it is insufficient for effective firing on the move, the sight should be supplemented with the electric horizontal and electric-hydraulic vertical drives of the main gun. They are produced by VNII “Signal” from Kovrov (the town in 150 km to the east of Moscow, reputed by its military production – SAM “Strela”/”Igla”, ATGM “Shturm”/”Ataka”, machine-guns etc.). Regretfully, its site is brief and only in Russian ( http://www.signal.kovrov.ru/ru/mbt.shtml ).
All these components can be installed on any T-72 or its derivatives.
Therefore, using such tanks without due stabilization is not the necessity, but the free democratic choice.
QUOTE(Davin @ Tue 11 Oct 2005 1546)
Przezdzieblo,
Very nice info.Thanks!
BTW,do you think Erawa-1 ERA better than Kontakt-1 ERA?
Very nice info.Thanks!
BTW,do you think Erawa-1 ERA better than Kontakt-1 ERA?
I am affraid that I cannot made such comparison. But I could provide some data it could be used for that.
ERAWA-1 against BK-14M HEAT round (penetration >300 mm RHAe; at Vasily`s site ~450 mm RHAe): jet penetrated only 30 mm of RHAe behind reactive armour cell
ERAWA-1 against BM-15 APFSDS round (penetration ~300 mm RHAe; at Vasily`s site even 380 mm RHAe): rod penetrated about 130 mm of RHA plate (o 60)
About K-1 performance you should ask someone another and there compare. ERAWA-1 is newer than K-1 and that is one more thing should be remembered.
Thanks Przezdzieblo.
Will Poland keep producing more PT-91?
Or they will be replace by Leo-2?
Will Poland keep producing more PT-91?
Or they will be replace by Leo-2?
QUOTE(Davin @ Fri 14 Oct 2005 1654)
Thanks Przezdzieblo.
Will Poland keep producing more PT-91?
Or they will be replace by Leo-2?
Will Poland keep producing more PT-91?
Or they will be replace by Leo-2?
Who knows? Now *we* got 233 Twardy`s standard tanks and 128 Leos 2A4 plus 700+ T72M/M1s. There were at least 3 propositions of "shallow" modernization of *our* T72s (f.e. with new Drawa-T2 FCS, with new Polish TI PCT; probably based on ElOp Elbow from Drawa-T). But for today there are no money for MBTs modernizations.
There are many types MBT service in yours army.
It's full of energy.
It's full of energy.
There are some rumours about new vehicle of Twardy family. In Kielce starts 14th International Defence Industry Exhibition (MSPO 2006), where it is said it would be present PT-91E. I suppose there would be some photos and details available tomorrow evening.
Nice photos Thanks! Any Photos of Polish AMV 8x8/6x6 (Rosomak) "in action"?
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1530/8rosomak21ds.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2763/9rosomak21mv.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6356/10rosomak20hq.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6650/11rosomak20vw.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8810/12rosomak25fj.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/791/13rosomak24fy.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8863/14rosomak21qo.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/218/15rosomak22dg.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8848/16rosomak28oi.th.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9654/17rosomak28fm.th.jpg
Thanks. More will be welcomed
QUOTE(CV9030FIN @ Sun 3 Sep 2006 1450)
Nice photos Thanks! Any Photos of Polish AMV 8x8/6x6 (Rosomak) "in action"?
Sorry, but links don´t work
JR
Hello,
Upgraded version of Polish PT-91, pictures take to MSPO 2006.
PT-91E
Greetings.
Alain
Upgraded version of Polish PT-91, pictures take to MSPO 2006.
PT-91E
Greetings.
Alain
I'm also interested about the PCN-A sight.Is this PT-91 fitted with PCN-A as its gunner's night sight?
Who has info of this night sight,such like the detecting range and the generation of ICT?
If somebody has more detailed pic on PCN-A sight please post it,Thanks in advance!
QUOTE(Davin @ Wed 12 Dec 2007 0810)
I'm also interested about the PCN-A sight.Is this PT-91 fitted with PCN-A as its gunner's night sight?
Who has info of this night sight,such like the detecting range and the generation of ICT?
If somebody has more detailed pic on PCN-A sight please post it,Thanks in advance!
Some (less than half) of PT-91 are equipped with PCN-A.
It is II+ generation image intensifier.
How about this PT-91?Look,it fitted with a new gunner's sight SAVAN-15 which has a built-in LRF,why the PT-91 has another LRF on the base of its main gun?
Davin, that laser is for field training. You can also see laser detector and orange light (flashing when tank is "dead") near smoke launchers.
As for PCN-A I only heard that those were installed at Twardy prototype(s?). So all or the most of 233 PT-91 got thermal sights. I got somewhere something about PCN-A, put it here soon.
Ok., ID range for PCN-A (Polski Celownik Nocny, Polish Night Sight) - 1500 m
FoV - 5,6o
Zoom - x5,4
IIT gen. II+
Both mechanically and electronically connected with GPS, while aiming gunner can use LRF of GPS; in normal mode aiming point moves when BC gave solution; in emergency sight got ballistic reticle.
As for PCN-A I only heard that those were installed at Twardy prototype(s?). So all or the most of 233 PT-91 got thermal sights. I got somewhere something about PCN-A, put it here soon.
Ok., ID range for PCN-A (Polski Celownik Nocny, Polish Night Sight) - 1500 m
FoV - 5,6o
Zoom - x5,4
IIT gen. II+
Both mechanically and electronically connected with GPS, while aiming gunner can use LRF of GPS; in normal mode aiming point moves when BC gave solution; in emergency sight got ballistic reticle.
QUOTE(armyreco @ Sun 17 Sep 2006 1056)
Upgraded version of Polish PT-91, pictures take to MSPO 2006.
PT-91E
PT-91E
What's the difference between the PT-91E a.k.a. PT-91Ex and the PT-91M? From what I've heard, it has the same FCS, same 1000 hp engine, same ERAWA-2 armour, same defensive systems...
QUOTE(Przezdzieblo @ Thu 13 Dec 2007 0657)
Davin, that laser is for field training. You can also see laser detector and orange light (flashing when tank is "dead") near smoke launchers.
As for PCN-A I only heard that those were installed at Twardy prototype(s?). So all or the most of 233 PT-91 got thermal sights. I got somewhere something about PCN-A, put it here soon.
Ok., ID range for PCN-A (Polski Celownik Nocny, Polish Night Sight) - 1500 m
FoV - 5,6o
Zoom - x5,4
IIT gen. II+
Both mechanically and electronically connected with GPS, while aiming gunner can use LRF of GPS; in normal mode aiming point moves when BC gave solution; in emergency sight got ballistic reticle.
As for PCN-A I only heard that those were installed at Twardy prototype(s?). So all or the most of 233 PT-91 got thermal sights. I got somewhere something about PCN-A, put it here soon.
Ok., ID range for PCN-A (Polski Celownik Nocny, Polish Night Sight) - 1500 m
FoV - 5,6o
Zoom - x5,4
IIT gen. II+
Both mechanically and electronically connected with GPS, while aiming gunner can use LRF of GPS; in normal mode aiming point moves when BC gave solution; in emergency sight got ballistic reticle.
I'm very happy to get these info,thanks Przezdzieblo!
But can we identify that which tank has Elbow TI and which tank has PCN-A by exterior view?
Are they sure they couldn't fit some more grenade launchers on it? 
A set of nice photos showing PT-91 being assembled (gracias Charlie):
QUOTE(alejandro_ @ Tue 3 Mar 2009 0905)
A set of nice photos showing PT-91 being assembled (gracias Charlie):
Interesting photos,thanks!Its basic armour looks same to the T-72M1.
That Ma Deuce on a on a Sov-style tank really jolts the eye! 
My tax ringgits pissed away. They're high on the suck factor. Endless issues.
Davin, it is most probably basic T-72M1 armor. Poland has developed ceramic armor for T-72M1 modernization, but Malaysia didn't purchase it, nor did Polish Army, due to high costs.
In addition to M2HB, seems that Polish PT-91's use standard Russian pattern RMSh -type tracks, but the Malaysian ones have Diehl Type 570 P tracks used also in Leopard II, Leclerc, Challenger 2 and M1 Abrams
In addition to M2HB, seems that Polish PT-91's use standard Russian pattern RMSh -type tracks, but the Malaysian ones have Diehl Type 570 P tracks used also in Leopard II, Leclerc, Challenger 2 and M1 Abrams
QUOTE(m4a1 @ Tue 3 Mar 2009 1930)
Davin, it is most probably basic T-72M1 armor. Poland has developed ceramic armor for T-72M1 modernization, but Malaysia didn't purchase it, nor did Polish Army, due to high costs.
ceramic armor for T-72M1 in the same old cast turret - it sounds strange.
QUOTE(Simon Tan @ Mon 10 Oct 2005 1344)
The big change was the acquisition of the Malaysian Mining Corporation by Syed Mokhtar al-Bukahri, a portege and darling of Dr. M. One of its subsidiaries was MMC Defense which already doing some work with refurbishing Malaysian Army vehicles like the SIBMAS and Kondors. They became the 'system integrator' of the T-91M and worked their magic and hey presto! When the deal was inked, a lot of subsystems were still to be decided. The word is that the Poles sweetened the deal with access to the East Silesian studs....the then PM being a bit of a horsey man.
The PT-91M is somewhat compromised by its crappy commander's sight, a day only, non-range finding VIGY 15.
The PT-91M is somewhat compromised by its crappy commander's sight, a day only, non-range finding VIGY 15.
What refurbishing did they do on the Kondors and Sibmas? They still retain the 20mm and 90mm main armament. There is not power or suspension strenght to increase the armour.
QUOTE(Przezdzieblo @ Fri 14 Oct 2005 1659)
Who knows? Now *we* got 233 Twardy`s standard tanks and 128 Leos 2A4 plus 700+ T72M/M1s. There were at least 3 propositions of "shallow" modernization of *our* T72s (f.e. with new Drawa-T2 FCS, with new Polish TI PCT; probably based on ElOp Elbow from Drawa-T). But for today there are no money for MBTs modernizations.
Fear not, we have 120mm Leo 2s, 105mm Centurion, and 75mm AMX-13 in our army. Even worse, the ammo is not interchangeable. At least u can use the same 125mm for your Twardy and T72.
Harkonnen, this is said to be the new ceramic "filler" for T-72M1 front hull and turret, though it might have been that only hull has been developed.
QUOTE(m4a1 @ Tue 3 Mar 2009 1930)
Davin, it is most probably basic T-72M1 armor. Poland has developed ceramic armor for T-72M1 modernization, but Malaysia didn't purchase it, nor did Polish Army, due to high costs.
Interesting news!I'm interested about what ceramic do they used?
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